Curse

glacialphoenix · Jun 10, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

If you can come up with an efficient way of preventing botters and leechers from entering PvP arenas, I'll agree with you.

And yet killing DTSC and MQSC would, I think, only compound the problem. People are already unhappy because there are botters and leechers in AB/JQ/FA; if you killed the things that allowed this speed clear to happen, you'd just make things worse. Forcing people to enter a PvP arena because it's the best way to gain the faction they want isn't going to improve things, it'll just clog up wait times and make everyone complain about that - on top of the botters/leechers issue.

And I'm saying, if you're unhappy about 600/smite or permasin because of the areas they can clear and you change them because of that, well. Think about all the ways it's affecting the smaller areas.

Quote:

A fair argument, if it weren't for Spirit Bond having a PvP version, essentially making the one you're using in PvE similar to a PvE-only skill.

But the functionality is the same. The only thing that's different is the recharge time. To me, that's vastly different from using things like "You Move Like A Dwarf!" or Pain Inverter.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 11, 2009, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back then

This guy is just bitter for some reason at 55 farmers. I dont know why anyone is even taking him seriously.

I have not seen you make a constructive or insightful post on this subject for the whole thread. You should probably consider saying something of worth before you come on here and try to troll people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

You can do all long replies you want but 99% of the ppl disagree with you , GL with that dude.

I wouldn't be surprised either to prove that a vast majority of the playerbase wants to keep SF the way it is now. That doesn't make it any less of an issue or problem or any less reason to discuss dealing with it. The same thing happened with Ursan, and I feel the same goes for 600/Smite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

And yet killing DTSC and MQSC would, I think, only compound the problem. People are already unhappy because there are botters and leechers in AB/JQ/FA; if you killed the things that allowed this speed clear to happen, you'd just make things worse. Forcing people to enter a PvP arena because it's the best way to gain the faction they want isn't going to improve things, it'll just clog up wait times and make everyone complain about that - on top of the botters/leechers issue.

Again, PvP is not the only option for the title. There are other areas on both sides that can be vanquished, and replaying the missions to fill books is also still an option. Concerning wait times, I'm almost certain that's the result of one side having mountains more players entering the match than the other.

More relevant to the original statement that I was addressing, I don't think that PvP faction rewards in those arenas is an effective alternative to nerfing speed clears when botting and leeching is still a problem. You might be able to persuade more people to play, yes, but you'd be giving even more encouragement to botters and leechers to clog up the arenas.

Quote:

And I'm saying, if you're unhappy about 600/smite or permasin because of the areas they can clear and you change them because of that, well. Think about all the ways it's affecting the smaller areas.

By "smaller areas," I can only think you're talking about general missions or areas in the game. There is no real reason to worry about 600/Smite or permasins in those areas, because the bulk of them are just as easy to do with H/H.

Quote:

But the functionality is the same. The only thing that's different is the recharge time. To me, that's vastly different from using things like "You Move Like A Dwarf!" or Pain Inverter.

I don't think you've ever played a 600 Tank. I encourage you to go do this some time and see if, on the initial aggro of a decently sized mob, you can mentally prevent yourself from activating Spirit Bond three seconds after it recharges and not die. If you aren't capable of pulling that off, my argument that your PvE version of the skill is no better than explicit PvE-only skills still stands.

UnChosen · Jun 11, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Great Idea! Then I can find groups in hell's precipice with so many people just DYING to repeat a mission for no decent reward just for fun! Every mission would have 10 districts because those evil farmers and runners will stop farming/running. Don't worry, none of them will leave the game because the missions are just soooooo fun, I can repeat them at least 100 times and I still won't be bored. I mean just look at DoA, hundreds of balanced groups forming to rape low level monsters that are defenseless against even the most random of groups.

And just think of all the good things that'll happen to guild wars' PvP! FA and JQ would be filled with all these great players that were ex. farmers/runners, there would be constant epic battle featuring "VERY ACTIVE" and strategic players. There will be so many battles you'll miss the outposts.

... knew it'll be a matter of time before the Shadow Form whining gets spilled over to the 600/smite...

Raudic · Jun 11, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

i dont see why you would want to kill the 600. i dont get why anyone would want to nerf any fatming builds for that matter.

rick1027 · Jun 11, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

The point is indeed to get rid of 600/Smite, for two reasons:

- These teams have become farming/running giants, being able to clear nearly every dungeon, and a few high end areas.
- They're used as a base in the two fastest faction farms for each of the allegiance titles. Removing them would encourage players to go to the PvP arenas for these titles and hopefully stir up more competitive play there.

it would drive these people to farm another way and it wouldnt take em to pvp you dreaming in that retrospect

zwei2stein · Jun 11, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

More relevant to the original statement that I was addressing, I don't think that PvP faction rewards in those arenas is an effective alternative to nerfing speed clears when botting and leeching is still a problem. You might be able to persuade more people to play, yes, but you'd be giving even more encouragement to botters and leechers to clog up the arenas.

That would happen even without reward buff is sc is nerfed.

More potential botters/leechers in factions-related pvp. That is another reason to keep --sc alive, now isn't it.

Find way to nerf 600/smite for dungeons/elite areas. keep rest.

drunknzelda · Jun 11, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Why bother nerfing something in PvE when PvP needs fixes more badly. If you balance PS like this you will just have people quitting GW because you remove a fun part of the game. It's not like any person can do these 600 farms (CoF excluded), you need to know your stuff (e.g. Kathandrax or Frostmaw). Either you want the community to shrink or you can't 600 yourself I'd say.

Sai Rith · Jun 11, 2009, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

After reading what you said and thinking it over, it seems that Spirit Bond doesn't need a change to its functionality at all, but moreso to its mechanics. Change it look at the damage post-reduction, and it works out. I'll edit my first post in a bit to point that out.

Okay, so you're saying that we shouldn't have pushed to get Ursan nerfed because people would just come up with something else?

With the number of options you have open to you with each profession in regards to what they can farm and how they can farm it, as well as the rewards that exist in beating certain areas, or completing certain goals, I'm not going to lose sleep over someone's favorite solo build getting nerfed if the potential offset is elimination of overabused speed farms.

No point suggesting something that can't be done. Before you fire that back at me, I'll say that my suggestion and everything else brought up in regards to changing SF and other imbalanced skills/builds is more something that ANet has refused to do or is resisting doing for one or more reasons, but is still plenty feasible.

Collector items are not that rare and difficult to obtain, so please do not make it seem so. I am really quite blown away by how you got the impression that I'm trying to prevent people from farming those.

A fair argument, if it weren't for Spirit Bond having a PvP version, essentially making the one you're using in PvE similar to a PvE-only skill.

If you can come up with an efficient way of preventing botters and leechers from entering PvP arenas, I'll agree with you.

Ignoring a problem or setting yourself apart from it is not a solution. Please go back and find every historical moment in GW where ANet failed to address something as fast as it should have on one reason or another and left an awful mark on GW by the time they responded.

After reading so many posts AGAINST this, why do you still bother to post? You do know that practically everyone thinks your idea is REMOTELY decent right? Yes, I will agree that the botters and such are a problem. But I'm sure nerfing Prot Spirit won't help at all. It will diminish not just botters, but even people who 600 for real (IE as a human.

Targren · Jun 11, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Ignoring a problem or setting yourself apart from it is not a solution. Please go back and find every historical moment in GW where ANet failed to address something as fast as it should have on one reason or another and left an awful mark on GW by the time they responded.

That's the thing. Very few people seem to think it is ACTUALLY a problem. Since all of your other logic is based on the premise that it is, if that premise is not accepted, the rest of it is similarly discarded.

JASON626 · Jun 11, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Anet could kill 600/smite and SF just by adding some touch enchantment removals to elite areas and dungeons in the right locations without changing a skill. Or redo monster skills etc.

Burst Cancel · Jun 11, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Better idea: make tanking impossible.

R.Shayne · Jun 11, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Removing those farms would push players to replay missions, group up for vanquishes, or go back to the PvP arenas. Hopefully, if enough of those players go back into PvP, it will spark more competitive play.

You do realize that the end affect would most likely be more AFK & Bots in FA & JQ? If someone wants to pay a 600/smite to vanq an area for them that is great, instead of trying to stop it, I would try to encourage it since ANET is doing nothing to reduce the number of AFK & Bots in FA & JQ.

/not signed

the_jos · Jun 12, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

- These teams have become farming/running giants, being able to clear nearly every dungeon, and a few high end areas.
- They're used as a base in the two fastest faction farms for each of the allegiance titles. Removing them would encourage players to go to the PvP arenas for these titles and hopefully stir up more competitive play there.

On the first point like Burst Cancel said: "Better idea: make tanking impossible."

On the PvP Arenas: I don't want those SC players there.
Please leave them in PvE.

I don't mind a functionality change to PS and SB, but not the ones you surgested. And I'm not sure the changes I'm thinking about (more tactical use instead of perma-protting) will help the average player.